Where does body shame come from?

[ToneBender]

For one young girl the answer seems to be parks and rec staff in Guelph Ontario.

The legal right for females to be topless anywhere a male can has been established in Canadian case law at the national level for 30 or so years. That doesn't stop private land holders from setting their own policies but public property?

From: The CBC

Guelph parents angry after topless girl, 8, told to cover up
Parks staff apologize, but stand behind policy to 'balance the safety and comfort of everyone'

Jun 24, 2015 6:26 AM ET

Paola Lorrigio, Liam Casey, The Canadian Press
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Nearly 25 years after a woman strolled through the streets of Guelph, Ont., to win the right to walk topless, an eight-year-old girl who took her shirt off to take a dip in a wading pool was told to cover up by municipal staff in the southwestern Ontario city.

Cory McLean said his daughter Marlee and three step-brothers all stripped to the waist Saturday, but only she was told to put on a shirt by a lifeguard, who cited city policy that prohibits girls over the age of four from going topless at city pools and splash pads.

The girl, who didn't understand why she was being singled out, put her top back on so she could continue playing, he said.

"She was so embarrassed and really nervous and scared because it appeared she was in trouble," McLean said.

Marlee broke a "sexist and antiquated" rule, said her dad, who called for it to be changed.

City officials said the policy is meant to balance the safety and comfort of everyone using public facilities such as pools.

The policy specifically applies to enclosed or fenced-in indoor pools, outdoor pools, wading pools and splash pads, which are supervised by city staff.

"Essentially, the policy was put in place because not everyone has the same comfort levels with females being topless," said Kristene Scott, general manager of parks and recreation for Guelph, in an interview with CBC News.

"The city's challenge is to balance the safety and comfort of everyone at our facilities, moms, dads, kids of all ages and our staff, including our lifeguards and our swimming instructors."

Scott said the city stands behind the policy, which she believes came into place around 2012.

'People have varying views'

"Our policy was never intended to offend anybody or make anybody feel uncomfortable or embarrassed. If that little girl in this situation has felt that way, we sincerely apologize for that," said Scott.

"Again we're back to trying to balance the needs and desires of everyone and ensure everyone feels comfortable. People have varying views whether toplessness is appropriate or not."

While the rules are in effect for a fenced-in area, they do not apply to a couple of the city's splash pads that are not enclosed by a fence and are not supervised. Scott said the policy protects staff as well.

"All of our enclosed areas are supervised, and this is for the safety and comfort level of our staff as well, who may need to touch participants if they are in need of assistance," said Scott.

"In this case, the rights of our city employees to have a safe work environment, the rights of other users of the pool, splash pad and the right to [use the facilities] comfortably have to be balanced against someone's rights to be topless."

Scott said city policies are automatically reviewed when such incidents occur and staff are looking at best practices in other municipalities.

When the rule was first proposed in Guelph city council, officials said topless women who refused to cover up at public pools would be asked to leave, but if that didn't work, that would be the end of it.

A 1996 Appeal Court ruling granted women the right to bare their breasts in public after Gwen Jacob, a 19-year-old Guelph university student, was charged with committing an indecent act when she walked home shirtless on a hot summer day five years earlier.

Her lawyer had argued Jacob was being punished for doing exactly what men do. Police had acted on a complaint from a mother whose young children had seen Jacob walking without a top.

With files from CBC News
© The Canadian Press, 2015The Canadian Press


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Source: http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/topstories/guelph-parents-angry-after-topless-girl-8-told-to-cover-up-1.3124762

[Pitti]

Since when is a 8 year old topless girl a hazard for the safety and comfortable Level of People? I don´t understand the view of the city.

[DrgHybrid]

Sadly it doesn't tailor towards safety but the fact how OTHER people view it. Many people have said it best, breast aren't sexual organs. Their sole existence in life is to feed babies. However, for better or worse, we in society have made them into one. If I changed my life views, I'd probably find man boobies to be far more offensive then a set of breast on most women. Things like this will never change though until people get their heads out of their butts.

[NudieDaniel]

Sadly it doesn't tailor towards safety but the fact how OTHER people view it. Many people have said it best, breast aren't sexual organs. Their sole existence in life is to feed babies. However, for better or worse, we in society have made them into one. If I changed my life views, I'd probably find man boobies to be far more offensive then a set of breast on most women. Things like this will never change though until people get their heads out of their butts.

8 year olds don't usually have breasts or much breast to speak of. Is it is how other view it and more about protecting so called innocence in the eyes of adults. 

[N.M.S.]

Wow. "Ridiculous" doesn't even begin to describe this situation. They should have just let her go as she was instead of making a big deal over her not having a shirt on. It's not like she's hurting anyone or having an effect on anything at all for that matter.

[DrgHybrid]

Sadly it doesn't tailor towards safety but the fact how OTHER people view it. Many people have said it best, breast aren't sexual organs. Their sole existence in life is to feed babies. However, for better or worse, we in society have made them into one. If I changed my life views, I'd probably find man boobies to be far more offensive then a set of breast on most women. Things like this will never change though until people get their heads out of their butts.

8 year olds don't usually have breasts or much breast to speak of. Is it is how other view it and more about protecting so called innocence in the eyes of adults.

Agreed. I've never really understood it anyways. If anything offends me, I look away. There's a comedian that I like to listen to. He comments about dog balls. Says he hates seeing dog balls but they are everywhere. haha

[ToneBender]

Progress! I think the city of Guelph just realized they're at risk of an expensive lawsuit and so are in the process of remediating their policy to reflect current Canadian case law.

As an aside - the issue isn't age as all females regardless of age have the same rights as their male counterparts. There may be an age related subtext from the knuckle dragging crowd as if girls can go to bed flat chested and wake up fully endowed without going through the inbetween stage but their issues with female puberty are completely irrelevant. This is purely about females being arbitrarily treated differently than males contrary to the values of a civilized society.

From: The CBC

Guelph, Ont., swimsuit policy under review after tempest over topless 8-year-old
All women and girls can go topless at city pools while councillors reconsider rules
10:17 AM ET
CBC News
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Parents from Guelph, Ont., are applauding the city's decision to suspend part of its swimming attire policy, after their eight-year-old daughter was told to cover her bare chest while taking a dip in a city wading pool over the weekend.

LISTEN: Guelph father of 8-year-old girl reacts to city's review of topless pool policy
Guelph parents angry after topless girl, 8, told to cover up
Cory McLean said his daughter felt "embarrassed" and "nervous" after the incident.

"To be honest, I was so surprised by the actual rule when I heard about it that I thought for sure it was some sort of mistake, some rule from way back that just got carried into the present," said McLean, who described the policy as "sexist and antiquated."

In the city's 2015 Community Guide, the policy states that "females ages four and older must wear a bathing top in … enclosed or fenced pools."

The city said it would review the section of the swimming attire policy related to tops and that during this review the requirement would not be enforced.

McLean said he is confident that permanent change is coming.

"I would like to see some gender equality in the rule, that's all. We were never trying to announce that we want small children to be topless, running around in parks," said McLean.

"We're not exhibitionists, we're just people that noticed a little bit of a loophole in the rules and guidelines that caused the gender inequality and we just wanted to make everyone aware of it."

In a press release, the city apologized "that the event caused the little girl to feel singled out or embarrassed," adding that the lifeguard who issued the command was following city policy.

"We've received a lot of diverse feedback about the part of the policy that requires girls above the age of four to wear a swimming top," said Kristene Scott, general manager of parks and recreation, in the release.

"Some people support the policy while others feel it no longer meets their needs. The city's challenge is to find a reasonable balance that serves our community."

Councillor says rules must apply equally

Ward 6 Coun. Mark MacKinnon says the city should not have a rule that prevents women, but not men, from going topless.

"We need to have a policy that has been updated for case law," MacKinnon said, referring to the Gwen Jacob's case, in which women won the right to go topless in public.

"In terms of toplessness, it just makes sense to remove that guidance completely. It's not age related. It's gender related."

MacKinnon said changing the rules to allow women to go topless at city pools would align Guelph with neighbouring communities like Cambridge.

Citizens of Guelph are encouraged to take part in the city's review of its swimming attire policy.

The city says details on how that can be done will be released in the coming weeks.

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/topstories/guelph-ont-swimsuit-policy-under-review-after-tempest-over-topless-8-year-old-1.3126647

[lord_george]

Nothing legal here, but reminds me of a day spent running through the sprinkler with a friend from kindergarten. We both took our shirts off and when his sister tried to do the same, my friend's dad intervened as quickly as he could. He wasn't able to explain why she couldn't take her shirt off too, and she was pretty upset. She wouldn't have looked any different than we did at that age.