General Talk (primarily non-naturist) > Music and Concerts
Paying homage vs ripping off another group's sound
TheSeane:
--- Quote from: brandon on August 29, 2009, 03:30:40 am ---
--- Quote from: TheSilentWithin on August 28, 2009, 06:44:58 pm ---I think the problem I have with most modern music today is that a lot of the stuff on the radio right now are cover songs back from the 80s and 90s..... lame!
--- End quote ---
How is that a problem? Seether's version of 'Careless Whisper' is better than George Michael / Wham's original version, imo.
--- Quote ---Seems like our label signed artists are running out of creative ideas with good driving lines so every one is digging up the "oldie goldie" tunes and redoing them.
--- End quote ---
'Twas always thus. According to Wikipedia, the Kingsmen's 1963 hit, 'Louis, Louis' was a cover. (The song was written by Richard Berry in 1955.) Fats Domino's 1956 hit 'Blueberry Hill' was written in 1940 and performed by various artists including Glenn Miller in the 1940s. Sinead O'Connor's 1990 version of 'Nothing Compares to You' is much better than Prince's version from the 1980s. Even if a cover isn't better, it is often still interesting to hear a fresh take on a familiar song. I love both New Order's original version of 'Blue Monday' and Orgy's edgier remake. I prefer the Cowboy Junkies' version of 'I'm so lonely I could cry' to Hank Williams' version.
BTW, you might find some elements of Bach in various popular songs written in the 20th and 21st centuries.
--- End quote ---
Of course there are always exceptions. And yes, most of the popular music is written in basic sonata form. We have Bach to thank for the complex counterpoint developments in even the simplest pop songs. With that in mind, it's really fun to analyze the subtle things in todays music that make it interesting.
Sorry if I kinda geeked out on music theory for a little while there :-)
Nude_not_rude:
--- Quote from: TheSilentWithin on September 01, 2009, 07:31:10 pm ---
--- Quote from: brandon on August 29, 2009, 03:30:40 am ---
--- Quote from: TheSilentWithin on August 28, 2009, 06:44:58 pm ---I think the problem I have with most modern music today is that a lot of the stuff on the radio right now are cover songs back from the 80s and 90s..... lame!
--- End quote ---
How is that a problem? Seether's version of 'Careless Whisper' is better than George Michael / Wham's original version, imo.
--- Quote ---Seems like our label signed artists are running out of creative ideas with good driving lines so every one is digging up the "oldie goldie" tunes and redoing them.
--- End quote ---
'Twas always thus. According to Wikipedia, the Kingsmen's 1963 hit, 'Louis, Louis' was a cover. (The song was written by Richard Berry in 1955.) Fats Domino's 1956 hit 'Blueberry Hill' was written in 1940 and performed by various artists including Glenn Miller in the 1940s. Sinead O'Connor's 1990 version of 'Nothing Compares to You' is much better than Prince's version from the 1980s. Even if a cover isn't better, it is often still interesting to hear a fresh take on a familiar song. I love both New Order's original version of 'Blue Monday' and Orgy's edgier remake. I prefer the Cowboy Junkies' version of 'I'm so lonely I could cry' to Hank Williams' version.
BTW, you might find some elements of Bach in various popular songs written in the 20th and 21st centuries.
--- End quote ---
Of course there are always exceptions. And yes, most of the popular music is written in basic sonata form. We have Bach to thank for the complex counterpoint developments in even the simplest pop songs. With that in mind, it's really fun to analyze the subtle things in todays music that make it interesting.
Sorry if I kinda geeked out on music theory for a little while there :-)
--- End quote ---
No reason to be sorry at all. I appreciated the parallel, but i don't think even today's musicians would think themselves Bach-like in their writing, they just think it sounds cool....;)
TheSeane:
--- Quote from: Toddo on September 02, 2009, 04:50:39 am ---
--- Quote from: TheSilentWithin on September 01, 2009, 07:31:10 pm ---
--- Quote from: brandon on August 29, 2009, 03:30:40 am ---
--- Quote from: TheSilentWithin on August 28, 2009, 06:44:58 pm ---I think the problem I have with most modern music today is that a lot of the stuff on the radio right now are cover songs back from the 80s and 90s..... lame!
--- End quote ---
How is that a problem? Seether's version of 'Careless Whisper' is better than George Michael / Wham's original version, imo.
--- Quote ---Seems like our label signed artists are running out of creative ideas with good driving lines so every one is digging up the "oldie goldie" tunes and redoing them.
--- End quote ---
'Twas always thus. According to Wikipedia, the Kingsmen's 1963 hit, 'Louis, Louis' was a cover. (The song was written by Richard Berry in 1955.) Fats Domino's 1956 hit 'Blueberry Hill' was written in 1940 and performed by various artists including Glenn Miller in the 1940s. Sinead O'Connor's 1990 version of 'Nothing Compares to You' is much better than Prince's version from the 1980s. Even if a cover isn't better, it is often still interesting to hear a fresh take on a familiar song. I love both New Order's original version of 'Blue Monday' and Orgy's edgier remake. I prefer the Cowboy Junkies' version of 'I'm so lonely I could cry' to Hank Williams' version.
BTW, you might find some elements of Bach in various popular songs written in the 20th and 21st centuries.
--- End quote ---
Of course there are always exceptions. And yes, most of the popular music is written in basic sonata form. We have Bach to thank for the complex counterpoint developments in even the simplest pop songs. With that in mind, it's really fun to analyze the subtle things in todays music that make it interesting.
Sorry if I kinda geeked out on music theory for a little while there :-)
--- End quote ---
No reason to be sorry at all. I appreciated the parallel, but i don't think even today's musicians would think themselves Bach-like in their writing, they just think it sounds cool....;)
--- End quote ---
This is mostly true. There are some true musicians out there who really know all the intricate little details behind making something sound interesting, but a lot of the music magic that we hear actually happens during preproduction in the studio with a damn good producer. From my studio experience with other bands and independent musicians, there is a ton of work involved in reorganizing, rewriting, coming up with back up vocal lines, rewording some vocal lines that may sound weird when sung.... all this happens before a single track is officially laid down. Then of course there are the ideas the come up while recording... and also the postproduction that happens during the mixing process.... And then you have the CD mastering process... So yeah, it can get tough to figure out where the artists' music starts and where the producers ideas begin... but a lot of bands I know wouldn't have half as good as a sound without the help of their producers. And of course there are ALWAYS the exceptions :786 There are a ton of independents who really know what the hell they are doing in the studio and have no need for an extra set of ears to help their music along...... then again those artist are usually extremely seasoned musicians.
Again, sorry for the big long excerpt. I've been doing studio guitar work and live performances for a loooong time now lol
Nude_not_rude:
--- Quote from: TheSilentWithin on September 02, 2009, 06:24:31 pm ---
--- Quote from: Toddo on September 02, 2009, 04:50:39 am ---
--- Quote from: TheSilentWithin on September 01, 2009, 07:31:10 pm ---
--- Quote from: brandon on August 29, 2009, 03:30:40 am ---
--- Quote from: TheSilentWithin on August 28, 2009, 06:44:58 pm ---I think the problem I have with most modern music today is that a lot of the stuff on the radio right now are cover songs back from the 80s and 90s..... lame!
--- End quote ---
How is that a problem? Seether's version of 'Careless Whisper' is better than George Michael / Wham's original version, imo.
--- Quote ---Seems like our label signed artists are running out of creative ideas with good driving lines so every one is digging up the "oldie goldie" tunes and redoing them.
--- End quote ---
'Twas always thus. According to Wikipedia, the Kingsmen's 1963 hit, 'Louis, Louis' was a cover. (The song was written by Richard Berry in 1955.) Fats Domino's 1956 hit 'Blueberry Hill' was written in 1940 and performed by various artists including Glenn Miller in the 1940s. Sinead O'Connor's 1990 version of 'Nothing Compares to You' is much better than Prince's version from the 1980s. Even if a cover isn't better, it is often still interesting to hear a fresh take on a familiar song. I love both New Order's original version of 'Blue Monday' and Orgy's edgier remake. I prefer the Cowboy Junkies' version of 'I'm so lonely I could cry' to Hank Williams' version.
BTW, you might find some elements of Bach in various popular songs written in the 20th and 21st centuries.
--- End quote ---
Of course there are always exceptions. And yes, most of the popular music is written in basic sonata form. We have Bach to thank for the complex counterpoint developments in even the simplest pop songs. With that in mind, it's really fun to analyze the subtle things in todays music that make it interesting.
Sorry if I kinda geeked out on music theory for a little while there :-)
--- End quote ---
No reason to be sorry at all. I appreciated the parallel, but i don't think even today's musicians would think themselves Bach-like in their writing, they just think it sounds cool....;)
--- End quote ---
This is mostly true. There are some true musicians out there who really know all the intricate little details behind making something sound interesting, but a lot of the music magic that we hear actually happens during preproduction in the studio with a damn good producer. From my studio experience with other bands and independent musicians, there is a ton of work involved in reorganizing, rewriting, coming up with back up vocal lines, rewording some vocal lines that may sound weird when sung.... all this happens before a single track is officially laid down. Then of course there are the ideas the come up while recording... and also the postproduction that happens during the mixing process.... And then you have the CD mastering process... So yeah, it can get tough to figure out where the artists' music starts and where the producers ideas begin... but a lot of bands I know wouldn't have half as good as a sound without the help of their producers. And of course there are ALWAYS the exceptions :786 There are a ton of independents who really know what the hell they are doing in the studio and have no need for an extra set of ears to help their music along...... then again those artist are usually extremely seasoned musicians.
Again, sorry for the big long excerpt. I've been doing studio guitar work and live performances for a loooong time now lol
--- End quote ---
Again no need to apologise. I understand where you are coming from having been involved with the odd session myself. I was talking with a brilliant musician the other day who's friend is an accountant who over analyses everything. He asked the musician how many notes there were in the average song. The answer went something like "well there are really only 12 notes or tones in the western scale, known as an octave. This octave can be played higher and/ or lower on an instrument depending on it's range or the range of the vocalist...bla, bla, bla..." and the accountant did some sums in his head and confidently said "well if that's the case, we've certainly run out of notes by now. Every possible combination of notes has had to have been used, so there can't be any new, original songs any more." The musician then said, "but you aren't accounting for context, instrumentation, tempo, rhythm, harmonic changes under the melody, lyrics sung with those notes, what comes before and after..."
So yes it's true that everything we hear today has been done before in some way and therefore naturally some apparently identical melodies and sounds are going to inevitably appear, but it's all down to how it's used and how it makes us feel. Also if the parallels were intended or not makes a difference to how we perceive the merit of a song.
TheSeane:
True true my friend! A very good story by the way :2345
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