Sad Day

[Dario Western]

The much lauded Sunsport Gardens is not the idyllic paradise for nudists and naturists as this report shows:

http://naturistvision.com/blogs/christiana/sad-day

We need to be ever wary that we don't let blinders and egos ruin our lifestyle.  Let's take responsibilty for our lifestyle, or else the authorities could very well close down places like SG, or at least restrict minors from attending them.

The forum on the site also brings up issues with the venue that some naturists want to pretend don't exist.  I previously thought Morley was a good role model for family nudism, but after reading the forum I'm not so sure now.  Very disappointed in him! :-(

[Danee]

The much lauded Sunsport Gardens is not the idyllic paradise for nudists and naturists as this report shows:

http://naturistvision.com/blogs/christiana/sad-day

We need to be ever wary that we don't let blinders and egos ruin our lifestyle.  Let's take responsibilty for our lifestyle, or else the authorities could very well close down places like SG, or at least restrict minors from attending them.

The forum on the site also brings up issues with the venue that some naturists want to pretend don't exist.  I previously thought Morley was a good role model for family nudism, but after reading the forum I'm not so sure now.  Very disappointed in him! :-(

Dario, my dear friend...please no more statements jumping to conclusions as was the situation once before with an error filled topic and post.


And, do not take everything that person said as gospel either. Sunsport is awesome and there are many here who will verify that.  Let things work their way on this with that photographer (not Morley, by the way..geesh!). 


 

[escape]

Wow, I hate this attitude (from the blogger and others). People are innocent until proven guilty and I don't think their names should be dragged through the mud. If they are proven guilty later, fine. I have no problems with people talking in generalities about issues such as the risk of paedophilia and the need for child safe guarding, but there is no need to bring named individuals into it. I have seen this happen before (outside naturism), where people around me have been accused and later no action has been taken against them by the police/prosecution, but people just assumed guilt. Often using similar justifications like "I always thought there was something strange about ...".

All of that said, I do have an opinion about this: Naturists have to realise that they must hold themselves up to a high standard of child protection, particularly because of how the public will view them, not so much because there is an increased risk. In the UK, many clubs have taken a very strong stance on child safeguarding (partly because there are legal obligations to do this and partly because British Naturism has been promoting it).

The best way to combat child abuse is openness. It can only occur because law-abiding, moral people are not aware that it is happening. This means, people need to have open and honest communication with their children, communities need to be open about accusations of abuse etc. (but not to the point of a witch hunt, that's why this ARGH PAEDOS!!! culture is unhelpful), locations/situations that might enable abuse should be eliminated where that is a proportionate measure (try to ensure some parents are present, avoid 1 on 1 time, children should stay in public spaces), avoid concentrations of responsibility/power (if a few adults can control the access that children have to other adults or the management is an "old boys club", this is a problem).

I don't think that child abuse will ever be eliminated from society, but I think that we can make the situation a lot better. Some child abuse can be entirely prevented. For the remainder that may occur, we should try to reduce the stigma on the victims, so that they can come forward and stop it, but also so that they can move on with their lives without feeling shame.

Finally, I think it is worth saying, that most of us, including myself, would not necessarily recognise signs of child abuse or behaviours of an abuser. This is an area, that we could probably all benefit from knowing more about. It can be hard to see things that are right in front of you. "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

[Dan]

Dario, can you refrain from trying to start a witch hunt, again?

[ToneBender]

Wow, I hate this attitude (from the blogger and others). People are innocent until proven guilty and I don't think their names should be dragged through the mud. If they are proven guilty later, fine. I have no problems with people talking in generalities about issues such as the risk of paedophilia and the need for child safe guarding, but there is no need to bring named individuals into it. I have seen this happen before (outside naturism), where people around me have been accused and later no action has been taken against them by the police/prosecution, but people just assumed guilt. Often using similar justifications like "I always thought there was something strange about ...".

All of that said, I do have an opinion about this: Naturists have to realise that they must hold themselves up to a high standard of child protection, particularly because of how the public will view them, not so much because there is an increased risk. In the UK, many clubs have taken a very strong stance on child safeguarding (partly because there are legal obligations to do this and partly because British Naturism has been promoting it).

The best way to combat child abuse is openness. It can only occur because law-abiding, moral people are not aware that it is happening. This means, people need to have open and honest communication with their children, communities need to be open about accusations of abuse etc. (but not to the point of a witch hunt, that's why this ARGH PAEDOS!!! culture is unhelpful), locations/situations that might enable abuse should be eliminated where that is a proportionate measure (try to ensure some parents are present, avoid 1 on 1 time, children should stay in public spaces), avoid concentrations of responsibility/power (if a few adults can control the access that children have to other adults or the management is an "old boys club", this is a problem).

I don't think that child abuse will ever be eliminated from society, but I think that we can make the situation a lot better. Some child abuse can be entirely prevented. For the remainder that may occur, we should try to reduce the stigma on the victims, so that they can come forward and stop it, but also so that they can move on with their lives without feeling shame.

Finally, I think it is worth saying, that most of us, including myself, would not necessarily recognise signs of child abuse or behaviours of an abuser. This is an area, that we could probably all benefit from knowing more about. It can be hard to see things that are right in front of you. "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Wow.

 

With all of that.

[Dario Western]

I agree with much of what escape has said, but the blog is written by a couple who had lived at Sunsport Gardens, so therefore they had more of an insight of what was going on behind the scenes. Unfortunately there are some very weird and creepy types of people in the naturist world, and they can spark off bad gut feelings in others.

Also, if you are a manager of a nudist place you must be virtually impeccable with how you treat your customers and residents.  Otherwise it can backfire on you.

[Dan]

You say, it was written by people living there so they must know something and they say that he was arrested so he must be guilty. That makes it a baseless witch hunt.

How hard is it to be accused without cause? Pretty easy. You need innocent pictures involving naked kids which you are likely to possess if you are a nudist and someone to complain to the police.

I'm really happy about the reaction of the people on this board we managed not to have unwarranted pitchforks both times you brought a similar topic.

[Dario Western]

Dan, do some research on the article.  It is NOT a baseless witch-hunt.  Sunsport Gardens has developed a very spurious reputation in the nudist movement over the last few years, especially with allowing children to run around unsupervised.  There is no smoke without a fire.

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news/news/apparent-nudist-from-loxahatchee-accused-of-produc/nXTrt/?icmp=pbp_internallink_textlink_apr2013_pbpstubtomypbp_launch

http://www.wpbf.com/news/south-florida/Palm-Beach-County-News/Nudist-arrested-on-child-pornography-charges/-/8815578/19869174/-/format/rsss_2.0/-/kwq94nz/-/index.html

http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/countygrind/2013/04/young_nudists_sunsport_naturist_florida_resport_asses.php

We need to stop burying our heads in the sand and saying "Oh, such behaviour would never happen at our place etc etc", and that nudist "Messiahs" are beyond reproach.  This only makes our lifestyle sound like some sort of a cult, and in order to be accepted and respected and eventually amalgamated into mainstream society we need to take full accountability of the bad stuff that goes on as well.

The safety and well-being of children is far more important that the "do whatever you want" attitude that some nudist camps have.  They've got to realise that it's not the 60's or 70's anymore - society has moved past that era and we now live in a world of cynicism and suspicion, and we have to be accountable. 

As for pitchforks, remember "Don't shoot the messenger".  Sometimes to be concerned about people you care about means to tell them what they don't like to hear.  Our lifestyle is not always fun and games and innocent as we might like the public to think.  It does have a dark side to it, and one that we need to fight.

[Dan]

There's no smoke without fire is what gave us lynch mobs. There's a very good reasons for the presumption of innocence and I don't see what a hobby I practice changes anything about it.

For all I know, you might be a pedophile too? Where's my pitchfork now?

[Waytwofast]

I think going to "real paradise" would suffice, go visit Paradise Lakes: http://www.paradiselakes.com/

[ToneBender]

Dan, do some research on the article.  It is NOT a baseless witch-hunt.  Sunsport Gardens has developed a very spurious reputation in the nudist movement over the last few years, especially with allowing children to run around unsupervised.  There is no smoke without a fire.

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news/news/apparent-nudist-from-loxahatchee-accused-of-produc/nXTrt/?icmp=pbp_internallink_textlink_apr2013_pbpstubtomypbp_launch

http://www.wpbf.com/news/south-florida/Palm-Beach-County-News/Nudist-arrested-on-child-pornography-charges/-/8815578/19869174/-/format/rsss_2.0/-/kwq94nz/-/index.html

http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/countygrind/2013/04/young_nudists_sunsport_naturist_florida_resport_asses.php

We need to stop burying our heads in the sand and saying "Oh, such behaviour would never happen at our place etc etc", and that nudist "Messiahs" are beyond reproach.  This only makes our lifestyle sound like some sort of a cult, and in order to be accepted and respected and eventually amalgamated into mainstream society we need to take full accountability of the bad stuff that goes on as well.

The safety and well-being of children is far more important that the "do whatever you want" attitude that some nudist camps have.  They've got to realise that it's not the 60's or 70's anymore - society has moved past that era and we now live in a world of cynicism and suspicion, and we have to be accountable. 

As for pitchforks, remember "Don't shoot the messenger".  Sometimes to be concerned about people you care about means to tell them what they don't like to hear.  Our lifestyle is not always fun and games and innocent as we might like the public to think.  It does have a dark side to it, and one that we need to fight.

I don't know anything of this previous "error filled topic and post" and I don't know about the veracity of the first paragraph above but I do believe that naturism/nudism attracts all sorts (not all of them good) and that children have to be protected from harm and that that is everyone's responsibility.

For all I know, you might be a pedophile too? Where's my pitchfork now?

Really Dan?

 

[mikeisnude]

Innocent until proven guilty....that works for me.  There is plenty of time to get hysterical If and when someone is actually convicted.  Even then you have to wonder since even simple nudity is pornographic to some.   

[Dan]

I don't know anything of this previous "error filled topic and post" and I don't know about the veracity of the first paragraph above but I do believe that naturism/nudism attracts all sorts (not all of them good) and that children have to be protected from harm and that that is everyone's responsibility.

Do you think nudists are *more* prone to have pedophiles in its midst than other hobbies?

For all I know, you might be a pedophile too? Where's my pitchfork now?

Really Dan?

 

I was making a point on how silly it is to go pitchforky on random accusation. It wasn't meant to be taken literally.

[Waytwofast]

Innocent until proven guilty....that works for me.  There is plenty of time to get hysterical If and when someone is actually convicted.  Even then you have to wonder since even simple nudity is pornographic to some.   

For sure, since it it is up to a jury what is "obscene" or indecent...

[ToneBender]

I don't know anything of this previous "error filled topic and post" and I don't know about the veracity of the first paragraph above but I do believe that naturism/nudism attracts all sorts (not all of them good) and that children have to be protected from harm and that that is everyone's responsibility.

Do you think nudists are *more* prone to have pedophiles in its midst than other hobbies?

As opposed to what? Fly tying? I don't know about in their midst but gawkers, pervs and yes pedos will always be at the fringes. They will try to take advantage if for no other reason than to get their jollies spectating. Why do you think a naturist resort would have a criminal background check for guests in the first place? That's the dark side Dario is talking about and we have to actively protect healthy naturists from anyone looking to take advantage of nudism for a sexual purpose.

For all I know, you might be a pedophile too? Where's my pitchfork now?

Really Dan?

 

I was making a point on how silly it is to go pitchforky on random accusation. It wasn't meant to be taken literally.

Obviously you weren't being literal. It was still harsh and uncalled for - maybe find another way to make your point.