Television

[Dan]

I know, it's just one of those things I take offense at but can't do anything about. It's sad that the 1st Amendment has to work both ways most of the time.

No it's great. The first amendment is there only to protect unpopular speech (because popular speech needs no protection). This has allowed a lot of progress because many previously unpopular ideas eventually gained mindshare (slavery is bad, women should be able to vote, etc.). You can't say "The only unpopular ideas we can express are the good ones like when we stopped segregation" because we only see they were good in hindsight, except for a small group.

If you want progress, you have to accept distastefulness speech. If TV makes more speech possible, it's a force for good.

[Steggsaurus]

i've been talking about this a bit with Jossalin and i thought i would expand on something i brought up then in her actual discussion thread.

there are things on TV which we don't like, and there are a whole load of things on TV that i think can have a negative effect on the viewer, especially if the viewer isn't informed, isn't aware to the full extent that they are watching a manipulated version of reality made with an agenda in mind and, for some people, this can be extremely harmful.

but there are also things which are on TV which i think we benefit a great deal from, things which can enrich us culturally, make us more informed and more aware of the world around us.

the example I gave Jossalin was Adam Curtis' film 'The Power of Nightmares' which charted the rise of both Western neo-conservatism and fundamentalist Islam in the latter part of the 20th century.

(for more information see this Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares)

i have also since thought of something else as well, which is the Life series of natural history films made by Sir David Attenborough.

Both of these were amazing, informative, eye-opening series' of documentaries which were shown on main UK tv channels.  yeah, sure, the schedules are cluttered up with terrible reality TV, biased news, celebrity-obsessed nothingness and all manner of other crap... but occasionally something comes along that uses television to contribute something to our culture which deserves to be noted.

[Jossalin]

I know, it's just one of those things I take offense at but can't do anything about. It's sad that the 1st Amendment has to work both ways most of the time.

No it's great. The first amendment is there only to protect unpopular speech (because popular speech needs no protection). This has allowed a lot of progress because many previously unpopular ideas eventually gained mindshare (slavery is bad, women should be able to vote, etc.). You can't say "The only unpopular ideas we can express are the good ones like when we stopped segregation" because we only see they were good in hindsight, except for a small group.

If you want progress, you have to accept distastefulness speech. If TV makes more speech possible, it's a force for good.

another one of my favorite topics! segregation, I'm so glad this was brought up.although it should be on both sides segregation only really ended in the 80's and even then people were still very racist. It's something that African Americans deserve this right to have a TV station and then some. It doesnt mean that it is racist, it means that after so many years of fighting for rights they get something of their own, which is something i strongly agree with.

[Jossalin]

i've been talking about this a bit with Jossalin and i thought i would expand on something i brought up then in her actual discussion thread.

there are things on TV which we don't like, and there are a whole load of things on TV that i think can have a negative effect on the viewer, especially if the viewer isn't informed, isn't aware to the full extent that they are watching a manipulated version of reality made with an agenda in mind and, for some people, this can be extremely harmful.

but there are also things which are on TV which i think we benefit a great deal from, things which can enrich us culturally, make us more informed and more aware of the world around us.

the example I gave Jossalin was Adam Curtis' film 'The Power of Nightmares' which charted the rise of both Western neo-conservatism and fundamentalist Islam in the latter part of the 20th century.

(for more information see this Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares)

i have also since thought of something else as well, which is the Life series of natural history films made by Sir David Attenborough.

Both of these were amazing, informative, eye-opening series' of documentaries which were shown on main UK tv channels.  yeah, sure, the schedules are cluttered up with terrible reality TV, biased news, celebrity-obsessed nothingness and all manner of other crap... but occasionally something comes along that uses television to contribute something to our culture which deserves to be noted.

He is actually right! like he said to me, i would rather go out and have then watch a TV show.I don't know why but I can't find it in me to sit and watch TV,I've tried a few times but it's a bore to me, it's pointless when you think about it.

[Nude_not_rude]

Yes TV is mostly pointless. I believe life is way too short for daytime TV. I love TV for watching live sports and the news and documentaries. I can't stand "reality tv" and have absolutely no time for Soapies (like 'Neighbours' etc...) I do partially watch Tv whilst surfing the net.

[Jossalin]

Yes TV is mostly pointless. I believe life is way too short for daytime TV. I love TV for watching live sports and the news and documentaries. I can't stand "reality tv" and have absolutely no time for Soapies (like 'Neighbours' etc...) I do partially watch Tv whilst surfing the net.

Same here! sports is fun to watch and it's fun to have parties with all your friends and family and educational TV is obviously educational but everything else is trash

[Fitz1980]

It's something that African Americans deserve this right to have a TV station and then some.

Plus there is the simple fact that minorities are statistically very under represented in the media.  Even on shows where they do appear they often fill the role of the "token Black" or "token Hispanic" character.  The truth is that most of what is considered "mainstream entertainment" is mostly white, because most of the population is white.  There are exceptions; but sitcoms are often the worse offenders.

That does not excuse the fact that many people of all colors have criticized BET for running the kind of programing that plays up the worst stereotypes about the African American community.  On "The Boondocks" that was even stated in a fantasy ep where Huey dreams what would happen if Martin Luther King didn't die from the assassin's bullet, but instead fell into a coma for 40 years and woke up in the modern era.  At the end he has a rant about the state of black culture & says "BET is the worst thing on television."

[Jossalin]

It's something that African Americans deserve this right to have a TV station and then some.

Plus there is the simple fact that minorities are statistically very under represented in the media.  Even on shows where they do appear they often fill the role of the "token Black" or "token Hispanic" character.  The truth is that most of what is considered "mainstream entertainment" is mostly white, because most of the population is white.  There are exceptions; but sitcoms are often the worse offenders.

That does not excuse the fact that many people of all colors have criticized BET for running the kind of programing that plays up the worst stereotypes about the African American community.  On "The Boondocks" that was even stated in a fantasy ep where Huey dreams what would happen if Martin Luther King didn't die from the assassin's bullet, but instead fell into a coma for 40 years and woke up in the modern era.  At the end he has a rant about the state of black culture & says "BET is the worst thing on television."

  BET does support the stereotype of what people think about African Americans, and it's there fault for going along with it, but like someone else said on here, you have the freedom to change the channel. But at the same time I contradict myself a little because I was bullied in school, I was called nigger when I'm not even African American,My point is I know what it feels like for them, I know how a skin color can affect everything and everyone around you.BET may be the worst thing on television, but the African Americans deserve there own damn station whether is contradicts them or not.

[Eric]

The existence of BET isn't racist - it's just one of dozens of stations that target a particular demographic group. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with observing that the black community has its own culture and tastes that are distinct from the majority white culture. The same goes for the half dozen channels which cater to women, the three or four Spanish-speaking stations, the one which bills itself as catering to men, or the dozens of channels trying to grab that young 16-20 something demographic.

However, much of the content on BET is racist - as it feeds negative stereotypes of what black people are like and the kind of things they'd enjoy. Though I think it's a lowest-common-denominator thing, not a trying to be racist thing.

With regards to the OP, there's nothing wrong with television for long form story telling. In fact it's the only visual medium where that kind of epic serial narrative structure is even possible. Stuff like The Wire or Mad Men or Battlestar Galactica simply can't be told as a two hour movie.

The problem isn't the content. And I don't even fault people for enjoying the stupid stuff - everyone is entitled to a bit of that now and then.

The problem is the advertising - which generates a perceived need for stuff that you don't really need, makes you want things that you can barely afford, and leads you to believe that if you just buy the right things you'll be happy. But you won't be. TV advertising is particularly bad for a whole host of reasons which I don't have time to elaborate on now.

So go ahead, watch TV content. Just not the version with the ads.

(And TV news is another beast altogether - just don't watch it at all.)

[Jossalin]

The existence of BET isn't racist - it's just one of dozens of stations that target a particular demographic group. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with observing that the black community has its own culture and tastes that are distinct from the majority white culture. The same goes for the half dozen channels which cater to women, the three or four Spanish-speaking stations, the one which bills itself as catering to men, or the dozens of channels trying to grab that young 16-20 something demographic.

However, much of the content on BET is racist - as it feeds negative stereotypes of what black people are like and the kind of things they'd enjoy. Though I think it's a lowest-common-denominator thing, not a trying to be racist thing.

With regards to the OP, there's nothing wrong with television for long form story telling. In fact it's the only visual medium where that kind of epic serial narrative structure is even possible. Stuff like The Wire or Mad Men or Battlestar Galactica simply can't be told as a two hour movie.

The problem isn't the content. And I don't even fault people for enjoying the stupid stuff - everyone is entitled to a bit of that now and then.

The problem is the advertising - which generates a perceived need for stuff that you don't really need, makes you want things that you can barely afford, and leads you to believe that if you just buy the right things you'll be happy. But you won't be. TV advertising is particularly bad for a whole host of reasons which I don't have time to elaborate on now.

So go ahead, watch TV content. Just not the version with the ads.

(And TV news is another beast altogether - just don't watch it at all.)

  you took the words right out of my mouth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! topic closed :p

[Dan]

With regards to the OP, there's nothing wrong with television for long form story telling. In fact it's the only visual medium where that kind of epic serial narrative structure is even possible. Stuff like The Wire or Mad Men or Battlestar Galactica simply can't be told as a two hour movie.

Or material that is highly self-referential with lots of inside jokes that reward regular viewers like Arrested Development.

The problem isn't the content. And I don't even fault people for enjoying the stupid stuff - everyone is entitled to a bit of that now and then.

I don't have a problem with the stupid stuff existing but I dislike how it's scheduled. Instead of going for content you like, you go for whatever sucks less at a given hour. It's exactly the reverse of the Internet which let you see thought provoking or stupid content too but you are in charge of what you want to see.

Plus the issue of catching something good in the middle, I hate starting stories in the middle.

So what I'd like is the TV format but delivered at will like the Internet. SRC (the French part of our national TV) understood the issue and put its shows on the web.

The problem is the advertising - which generates a perceived need for stuff that you don't really need, makes you want things that you can barely afford, and leads you to believe that if you just buy the right things you'll be happy. But you won't be. TV advertising is particularly bad for a whole host of reasons which I don't have time to elaborate on now.

What I particularly dislike about TV advertising is that it brings self-censorship. I don't know about anywhere else on the planet but in Quebec, no channel will dare to speak ill of a company that is advertising with them, did advertised with them or could eventually advertise with them. So they could criticize an oil company because it's unlikely that they would buy ads from them but not a drugstore chain because they might.

And they won't criticize the government either because they like their subventions.

The only channels that don't follow the rule are SRC/CBC and they are owned by the government.

[peteR]

The problem is the advertising - which generates a perceived need for stuff that you don't really need, makes you want things that you can barely afford, and leads you to believe that if you just buy the right things you'll be happy. But you won't be. TV advertising is particularly bad for a whole host of reasons which I don't have time to elaborate on now.

But advertising serves a really useful purpose, too. You can go to the toilet or get something to eat or drink without missing anything. And I'm not trying to be funny here, it's what I actually do.

[Eric]

The problem is the advertising - which generates a perceived need for stuff that you don't really need, makes you want things that you can barely afford, and leads you to believe that if you just buy the right things you'll be happy. But you won't be. TV advertising is particularly bad for a whole host of reasons which I don't have time to elaborate on now.

But advertising serves a really useful purpose, too. You can go to the toilet or get something to eat or drink without missing anything. And I'm not trying to be funny here, it's what I actually do.

Well, the answer to that is that every other way of watching TV includes a pause button. :)

[peteR]

The problem is the advertising - which generates a perceived need for stuff that you don't really need, makes you want things that you can barely afford, and leads you to believe that if you just buy the right things you'll be happy. But you won't be. TV advertising is particularly bad for a whole host of reasons which I don't have time to elaborate on now.

But advertising serves a really useful purpose, too. You can go to the toilet or get something to eat or drink without missing anything. And I'm not trying to be funny here, it's what I actually do.

Well, the answer to that is that every other way of watching TV includes a pause button. :)

Advertising is practically the pause button of TV.

[Jossalin]

The problem is the advertising - which generates a perceived need for stuff that you don't really need, makes you want things that you can barely afford, and leads you to believe that if you just buy the right things you'll be happy. But you won't be. TV advertising is particularly bad for a whole host of reasons which I don't have time to elaborate on now.

But advertising serves a really useful purpose, too. You can go to the toilet or get something to eat or drink without missing anything. And I'm not trying to be funny here, it's what I actually do.

haha either way it is really all pointless. I used to watch CSI and now that I even try to watch it I think of how it's fake and there's no point to it, it doesn't benifit my life in any way.Almost nothing on TV does.