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Offline NickUMA10

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Vita Nuda (AANR) attacks YNA
« on: March 03, 2011, 02:49:38 am »
via the YNA facebook

   
Quote
This is a formal and public request of Vita Nuda and AANR to issue a formal apology to YNA and its members.

Vita Nuda’s (the under-35 division of AANR) group members have taken it on themselves to harass our members. So we would like to start by saying we are truly sorry for any embarrassment they might have caused. Unfortunately there are people in the world who truly believe that anyone who does not agree with them is not only wrong but is causing some personal damage to them and their group. So for all of you out there who have no idea what I am talking about, this is what happened. We were contacted by a member of VN last weekend - he sent us an angry email of accusations and demanded to get personal information about ourselves and our group. It goes without saying that we cordially declined - it is simply none of his business.

Then him and another member (at least 1) decided to post on our facebook page that we like pages which we should not. After which they decided to friend some of our members so they could see their profile pictures and see what they like and what they say - needless to say that we do not condone such behavior and consider such an act to be a vulgar display and horrible way of invading someone’s trust and privacy. They probably think of themselves as righteous but in reality they are simply being intrusive, belligerent, offensive and down right rude. They feel the need to police our group even though they really have no right to. While we always think that the debate is healthy - what they are doing is not considered a debate. It is simply slander, since they are just taking a “holier than though” attitude and are only interested in voicing their opinion.


 If they really cared they would not have been posting their issues publicly - they would have contacted us directly and expressed their concerns in a calm and professional manner. So now that they have made their point we ask that they (the people who caused all this drama, the VN organisation that they represent and AANR who is the parent organization) issue a formal apology to our members in general, the individual people they felt compelled to attack, and to YNA as a whole. We ask that they refrain from such behavior in the future. If they are so unhappy with the way we do things then they should simply leave our group - that would be the right thing to do. We do not need nor do we want people who feel it is their duty to judge - the naturist movement has enough issues as is without close-minded members getting in our way.

What say ye? Is AANR pulling the 'pervert card' on a competitor or is YNA shady (I do believe some people here have met them)?

Edit: I still want to meet the YNA people in person, just to see if they credibly have money and some broad vision-BUT I am gonna say this is AANR getting scared. They are essentially running retirement communities. At some point, people were going to organize the outsiders from those organizations. Who knew being naked could be so political?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 02:55:00 am by NickUMA10 »
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Offline Daft

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Re: Vita Nuda (AANR) attacks YNA
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2011, 03:05:05 am »
Is it that difficult that two associations can coexist peacefully?

If this acusation is really true, shame on you Vita Nuda.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Vita Nuda (AANR) attacks YNA
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2011, 03:21:17 am »
Is it that difficult that two associations can coexist peacefully?

Yes. It is.

AANR sees any alternative to getting naked in a club that pays fees to it as a competitor.
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Offline Danee

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Re: Vita Nuda (AANR) attacks YNA
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2011, 04:07:34 am »
That nasty politics of America rears its head again in the AANR circles. I know not enough about the one org. but know a good deal about AANR and my thoughts are well known on the subject. 

Just deplore the politics of all. 
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Offline Luke M

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Re: Vita Nuda (AANR) attacks YNA
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2011, 04:44:00 am »
I really believe these groups need to work together to be successful. I mean that in the sense that to the common outsider, these groups all look the same. The in-fighting needs to stop.

Offline NaturalInNY

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Re: Vita Nuda (AANR) attacks YNA
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2011, 11:14:20 am »
The more I read about the AANR, the less fond of them I become. It seems they're more interested in promoting their own their own clubs and financial interests than spreading the philosophy of naturism. I don't know the full story and will reserve judgment. But if Vita Nuda is in fact harassing YNA members, then it's shameful and needs to stop.

YNA is a local group in the tri-state area and I've e-mailed them to find out if there's any events planned around here. They seem like a good, friendly group of people with good ideas. dtidew said in the "NYC Naked Party" thread that they had a small gathering to make it up to the people that planned to make it to the party that got canceled. That right there makes me think highly of them.

Offline NaturalInNY

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Re: Vita Nuda (AANR) attacks YNA
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2011, 02:01:34 pm »
Weak. You think if any group would be understanding of the goals and motivations of YNA it would be another group catering to young naturists. And if she doesn't want to reveal her name that's her business and probably has a lot to do with the stigma said Vita Nuda member is actually helping reinforce. Seems counter productive to me.  :345

Offline Daft

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Re: Vita Nuda (AANR) attacks YNA
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2011, 11:05:48 pm »
The more I read about the AANR, the less fond of them I become. It seems they're more interested in promoting their own their own clubs and financial interests than spreading the philosophy of naturism. I don't know the full story and will reserve judgment. But if Vita Nuda is in fact harassing YNA members, then it's shameful and needs to stop.

YNA is a local group in the tri-state area and I've e-mailed them to find out if there's any events planned around here. They seem like a good, friendly group of people with good ideas. dtidew said in the "NYC Naked Party" thread that they had a small gathering to make it up to the people that planned to make it to the party that got canceled. That right there makes me think highly of them.

This is all true, I talked to Felicity (co-owner of YNA) at the gathering about this and she said that there was a member of Vita Nuda West that would continually harass her for not revealing her real name and that makes YNA shady and look like a sex club.  But, this member would not reveal his or her name and had no credible evidence that YNA has anything to do with sex.  In fact, after talking to YNA leaders about it, the owner of the party location that decided to back out last minute did so since he was disappointing that the previous two parties (which his location hosted) were not sexually oriented and that he was tired of not getting laid. 
As for money and motivation, they've got them.  I mean money never comes easy, but there seems to be a good amount of customer support, plus sponsorships from nudist magazines, and the new iPhone app that they put out, which should keep them afloat.  As for motivation, at the gathering we all talked about new ideas and ways to bring everyone together, how to reduce the stigma of nudism, how to get a place for parties where it is clear that it is not a sex party (there are enough of those in New York), and just about the promotion of body freedom in general.  Very nice people with great ideas (as I said before, just like the people here) and they actually know what they are doing.  I know that I am not an official owner of YNA, but the way that I interacted with them and how they listen to me, I really feel like I'm part of the revolution.   

Thanks for this report, dtidew. I follow Felicity's blog and read what they post on their YNA Twitter account, and I really like their initiative to organize events and gather people, without waiting for an "official" organization do it.
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Offline NickUMA10

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Re: Vita Nuda (AANR) attacks YNA
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2011, 12:18:23 am »
Thanks for the posts all. I do believe the old bastion of 'club' naturism is dying. :66664333
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Re: Vita Nuda (AANR) attacks YNA
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2011, 12:49:17 am »
I just learned about this whole mess this morning, so I don't know what's going on. I'm not exactly a member of Vita Nuda (East), but like dtidew, I've met and talk to the people who are in charge of Vita Nuda (East). I find it hard to believe that they would do what YNA claims. Now, they are saying it someone from Vitan Nuda West and I haven't met anyone from that part of the organization, but meeting the people of Vita Nuda East and knowing how their philosophies really line up with the same philosophies we hold true here on this board, it's just hard to swallow. At the same time, Vita Nuda and AANR is are organizations made up of different people. It is entirely possible that you may have one bad apple acting on their own (which seems to be the case here).

I like YNA and what they stand for, and Vita Nuda stands for the exact same things. Vita Nuda isn't about promoting clubs and bringing patronage to them. They're about true naturism and promoting it to younger people. They are a good part of the reason why I'm even involved in any of this. Yes, a lot of the events they've held have been in clubs, but they also have held events at Beaches too. They also work very well with another youth oriented organization, Florida Young Naturists, so I don't believe that there is any kind of jealousy going on there.

I think this whole thing might just amount to a misunderstanding. Who knows. Again, I don't know enough about this to pass judgement to either party. I like them both. I want them both to succeed and work well together. Hopefully they can work this out. We don't need any in-fighting because that doesn't help the cause.

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Re: Vita Nuda (AANR) attacks YNA
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2011, 12:53:37 am »
The more I read about the AANR, the less fond of them I become. It seems they're more interested in promoting their own their own clubs and financial interests than spreading the philosophy of naturism. I don't know the full story and will reserve judgment. But if Vita Nuda is in fact harassing YNA members, then it's shameful and needs to stop.

YNA is a local group in the tri-state area and I've e-mailed them to find out if there's any events planned around here. They seem like a good, friendly group of people with good ideas. dtidew said in the "NYC Naked Party" thread that they had a small gathering to make it up to the people that planned to make it to the party that got canceled. That right there makes me think highly of them.
Many years ago when I lived in NYC, I went to a "naked party" at a gym.  It was older, cliquish and borderline creepy.  I applaud the YNA folks who sound like they are trying to do the right things. Good for them!! Dtidew, if I still lived there it would be awesome to go to one of these YNA gatherings, no matter how big or small or whether it was hot tub related or sitting around drinking coffee.  I have a question for you to clarify-Did you meet face to face the woman who does the blogging? I think it is irrelevant if people don't use their real names. What has happened to discretion?? No one needs to pull out there driver licenses! In other news, I think Facebook, and the likes, have simply become Gossip 2.0.

This is all true, I talked to Felicity (co-owner of YNA) at the gathering about this and she said that there was a member of Vita Nuda West that would continually harass her for not revealing her real name and that makes YNA shady and look like a sex club.  But, this member would not reveal his or her name and had no credible evidence that YNA has anything to do with sex.  In fact, after talking to YNA leaders about it, the owner of the party location that decided to back out last minute did so since he was disappointing that the previous two parties (which his location hosted) were not sexually oriented and that he was tired of not getting laid. 
As for money and motivation, they've got them.  I mean money never comes easy, but there seems to be a good amount of customer support, plus sponsorships from nudist magazines, and the new iPhone app that they put out, which should keep them afloat.  As for motivation, at the gathering we all talked about new ideas and ways to bring everyone together, how to reduce the stigma of nudism, how to get a place for parties where it is clear that it is not a sex party (there are enough of those in New York), and just about the promotion of body freedom in general.  Very nice people with great ideas (as I said before, just like the people here) and they actually know what they are doing.  I know that I am not an official owner of YNA, but the way that I interacted with them and how they listen to me, I really feel like I'm part of the revolution.   
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Re: Vita Nuda (AANR) attacks YNA
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2011, 01:44:53 am »
I have never been to a landed club, I don't belong to an organization.

But having gone to beaches, I have observed that while most people are there to relax/ have fun, there are those who have an agenda and want things their way. Some people are just antisocial and look at you cross-eyed if you say hi and try to strike up a conversation as a single male- or God forbid- ask to swim with/ near them because you came alone. But the real problem is that the dominant people there do tend to be older- say 50+- and do not adequately care about nor go out of their way to reach out to the 20's and 30's demographic. Maybe a bigger organized younger presence is needed at Gunnison/ Lighthouse. I have met a lot of great people there of all ages, but somehow we need to find a way to better bring the youth together, even if it is not through a rigid, structured organization.  

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Re: Vita Nuda (AANR) attacks YNA
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2011, 02:05:02 am »
I have never been to a landed club, I don't belong to an organization.

This is something organizations like AANR don't understand. We are a generation that do not subscribe. No matter what they offer, we don't buy into forced commitment. This is a major reason why we go to beaches and not resorts. The beach doesn't ask us to sign anything.
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Re: Vita Nuda (AANR) attacks YNA
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2011, 02:52:56 am »
Thanks for the posts all. I do believe the old bastion of 'club' naturism is dying. :66664333
I have never been to a landed club, I don't belong to an organization.

This is something organizations like AANR don't understand. We are a generation that do not subscribe. No matter what they offer, we don't buy into forced commitment. This is a major reason why we go to beaches and not resorts. The beach doesn't ask us to sign anything.

I don't want to derail this topic as this was originally about YNA vs Vita Nuda so I was going to start a separate thread, and maybe I should, but in light of some reason comments I'm just going to say it here. I don't feel there is much of a difference between a nudist resort/club and a clothing optional beach.

Do I feel some clubs are overly restrictive with their single male policies? Absolutely! Still, I've met plenty of young people at the clubs and resorts I've been to and I always have a great time. I also feel like everyone is beating on AANR really hard. Yes, AANR often does seem to serve the clubs more than anything else, and I do think that they sometimes lose track of the bigger picture overall, but they are still a huge organization with a lot of clout and have helped move naturism along. I most certainly wouldn't have found naturism if it wasn't for AANR and the clubs that go along with that. They're just another facet of the nudist/naturist lifestyle.

On top of that, I think it is unfair to automatically lump Vita Nuda in with AANR's philosophies the way you guys are. Yes, Vita Nuda is associated with AANR, but they're not one organization, rather they are two symbiotic organizations. Vita Nuda is getting an extreme amount of support from AANR because AANR recognizes that they do need young people to grow the organization. Plus, I've been to a lot of Vita Nuda events and not once do I feel like I was forced into any kind of commitment or subscribed to anything. We were all just having fun. You really can't "join" Vita Nuda because it's not a membership driven organization. To join Vita Nuda, you'd have to be an organizer, not just a member.

Back to my original point, I don't believe there is much of a difference between a nudist resort and a clothing optional beach. They are both two different places to go nude and you get out of it what you want. Yes, the atmosphere can be different from one to the other but a lot of the times, the result is the same. I feel a lot closer to nature when visiting either one of these venues, but it does depend on what happens when I go.

There are times (particularly weekends) when I go to Cypress Cove and they've got the DJ there and it's one big boring party. Once I leave that atmosphere and enter into the more natural parts of the club (like the area around the lake), I start to feel closer to nature and really enjoy being there. I really felt this way when I went to Sunsport Gardens as well. It's a beautiful club that is VERY true to naturist values, they don't discriminate against single males, and it's pretty much a camp ground with beautiful nature trails and you really feel close to nature as well.

The big difference to me is that, at the beaches, I feel really lonely. People won't interact with others at all because everyone's paranoid of other people being pervs, especially single males. So, even though there isn't any systemic discrimination against single males, that discrimination still exists and it often feels worst at the beach. This is why I don't fully blame the clubs for having the policies that they do. It makes the people inside feel safer and more comfortable, so they're more likely to engage strangers since they know that they've been vetted.

I honestly think that both halfs equal the whole and the more places we have to go nude the better. I wouldn't pick one over the other and I wouldn't want ANY of them to go away, because then that limits my options. AANR may not be perfect, but they are helping. Even if they're only helping the clubs, that's more options than we would have otherwise.

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Re: Vita Nuda (AANR) attacks YNA
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2011, 04:58:23 am »
What a wonderfully expressed comment.  While firmly anti AANR, I do see your points completely.  I understand what your points are, and they do make sense. Thank-you very much.
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