AANR vs Gaga? WTF!

[Dan]

The thing is that I don't believe there would be much of a backlash. See, had she done something stupid like the Justin Timberlake/Janet Jackson crappy half-time show, then yes. Backlash because she revealed a pasty for 0.5 seconds on national television.

As I mentioned earlier, this incident was a net win for us. It is the widely accepted consensus, even in the US, that the general reaction to this event was dumb and juvenile and that nipples really are no big deal.

[Riot.EXE]

  I think the AANR are secretly jealous that she's influencing more people with her statements on nudity than they ever can.

The USA has a saying for that: "Haters gonna hate."

[jlaidler]

I still think it's rather silly.  They really do think they have a monopoly on social nudism.  Their attitude really is pay to be a member of our club and only go naked with other at our club and share it with others at our club.  THIS is why I am sooooooo leery of "organized commercial nudism."  Sucks all the fun out of being naked, all these rules and regulations etcetera, ad nauseum.  I'll hop around naked where I like thank you much. :L998877

[AElf]

I know what I think.  I think that the AANR only wants Gaga and everyone else to be nude someplace where AANR member clubs can make money from it.  AANR wants nudity to be a commodity in the same way that Hollywood has made sex and violence into commodities.

[Dario Western]

Very well said!   

[jlaidler]

I agree too, I'd rather not pay to take my clothes off.

[jlaidler]

Pardon my having a little bit of a rant here, but it's organizations such as the AANR who make it harder for this country and it's people to learn about and experience nudism, social or otherwise.  Europe and even The UK are easy places to find somewhere to meet someone, of any age, race, gender, persuasion and familial status to meet greet and mingle.  Here, nada.  You mention it to people and they look at you as though you're a pervert.  *sign*  Perhaps I should try to move to Europe, some day.

[Camper]

I think it’s nearly impossible for any organization to remain completely principled when profit becomes a consideration.  In the 1950’s and 1960’s, when AANR was still ASA, it served as an advocacy group for individuals and the makeshift gathering places they constructed.  It’s much more of a trade association nowadays.  Nothing wrong with that, but such an evolution is bound to come with some changes and controversies.

This transformation is certainly not unique to AANR.  It requires a great deal of money for any organization to remain an audible voice in modern society.  But that need for money does define the mission of the group, to some extent.  A group that was founded to educate the public on a specific medical condition may find itself dependant on contributions from a pharmaceutical company.  Subsequently, the group may be somewhat less inclined to promote diet and exercise as alternatives to pharmaceutical treatments.

Skinnydipping is a criminal offense in my state (Tenn. Code Annotated, Section 39-13-511), partly because AANR negotiated a deal that allowed the anti-nudity legislation to pass as written, so long as landed clubs were exempt.  San Onofre beach is another example.  AANR does substantial work to promote and protect nudism, but not always free nudism.  I’m glad landed clubs were spared, but it’s kind of distressing that my state criminalizes skinnydipping in a mountain lake exactly as it criminalizes having sex in the middle of a busy street.

I should clarify that I do not believe AANR endorses sexual activity at its clubs.  I recognize AANR has severed ties with a few clubs that were openly advertising swinger activities.  But there are some evolving controversies concerning other clubs.  Can an AANR-affiliated club host “adult” groups?  Can an AANR-affiliated club post provocative images online to attract members?  I think these are controversies AANR isn’t completely prepared for.  If the larger resorts begin marketing more and more to the adult crowds, when does AANR step in?  Only when the “SWINGERS WELCOME!” sign goes up at the gate?  Can they afford to sever ties with multiple clubs that have hundreds and hundreds of paying members? 

My intent is not to bash AANR or any other group.  I guess I just want to ponder what the future might hold if we give up our beaches and lakes and restrict nudism to a designated number of approved resorts, resorts that exist to turn a profit.  I guess the Lady Gaga statement struck a chord, because it seems to take a comment on the liberating nature of nudity and suggest that it be confined to a private, gated, paid facility.

[Dan]

AANR wants nudity to be a commodity in the same way that Hollywood has made sex and violence into commodities.

A commodity is a product that is roughly the same no matter who produces it. If you want a table, you don't have to go to a specific manufacturer. Commodities are good for the public because it means more options and cheaper prices. What the AANR wants to do is turn a commodity into a monopoly which enables you to charge artificially high prices.

Basically the same thing we have with oil, tickets and some software.

[NickUMA10]

My intent is not to bash AANR or any other group.  I guess I just want to ponder what the future might hold if we give up our beaches and lakes and restrict nudism to a designated number of approved resorts, resorts that exist to turn a profit. 

We get corporatist monopoly nudism!

[jlaidler]

Oh well, let us all groan, sign, shake out heads, then move on.  I'll try to find something I can actually affect and focus on that, no sense dwelling on this.

[Cabding]

I meant to post this earlier but Crasher always seems to best me to it. All in all a very silly move by AANR to make it seem like they know better than everyone else.

[crasher35]

I think it’s nearly impossible for any organization to remain completely principled when profit becomes a consideration.  In the 1950’s and 1960’s, when AANR was still ASA, it served as an advocacy group for individuals and the makeshift gathering places they constructed.  It’s much more of a trade association nowadays.  Nothing wrong with that, but such an evolution is bound to come with some changes and controversies.

This transformation is certainly not unique to AANR.  It requires a great deal of money for any organization to remain an audible voice in modern society.  But that need for money does define the mission of the group, to some extent.  A group that was founded to educate the public on a specific medical condition may find itself dependant on contributions from a pharmaceutical company.  Subsequently, the group may be somewhat less inclined to promote diet and exercise as alternatives to pharmaceutical treatments.

Skinnydipping is a criminal offense in my state (Tenn. Code Annotated, Section 39-13-511), partly because AANR negotiated a deal that allowed the anti-nudity legislation to pass as written, so long as landed clubs were exempt.  San Onofre beach is another example.  AANR does substantial work to promote and protect nudism, but not always free nudism.  I’m glad landed clubs were spared, but it’s kind of distressing that my state criminalizes skinnydipping in a mountain lake exactly as it criminalizes having sex in the middle of a busy street.

I should clarify that I do not believe AANR endorses sexual activity at its clubs.  I recognize AANR has severed ties with a few clubs that were openly advertising swinger activities.  But there are some evolving controversies concerning other clubs.  Can an AANR-affiliated club host “adult” groups?  Can an AANR-affiliated club post provocative images online to attract members?  I think these are controversies AANR isn’t completely prepared for.  If the larger resorts begin marketing more and more to the adult crowds, when does AANR step in?  Only when the “SWINGERS WELCOME!” sign goes up at the gate?  Can they afford to sever ties with multiple clubs that have hundreds and hundreds of paying members? 

My intent is not to bash AANR or any other group.  I guess I just want to ponder what the future might hold if we give up our beaches and lakes and restrict nudism to a designated number of approved resorts, resorts that exist to turn a profit.  I guess the Lady Gaga statement struck a chord, because it seems to take a comment on the liberating nature of nudity and suggest that it be confined to a private, gated, paid facility.

You are absolutely right in all of your points. I still think that AANR is a necessary and important entity for protecting clubs but I've concluded that I will not renew my membership with AANR come next year. I'm going to join TNS instead; especially since I now officially consider myself a naturist instead of a nudist. My ideals align much better with that philosophy and with that organisation.

[Fitz1980]

I think it’s nearly impossible for any organization to remain completely principled when profit becomes a consideration.  In the 1950’s and 1960’s, when AANR was still ASA, it served as an advocacy group for individuals and the makeshift gathering places they constructed.  It’s much more of a trade association nowadays.  Nothing wrong with that, but such an evolution is bound to come with some changes and controversies.

A friend of mine lives in the Tampa, FL area (home of many nudist resorts) and was raised in the nudist lifestyle.  She once told me that she feels that the resort that she grew up in (and later left for another resort) became more interested in selling condos than anything else.  From a business perspective it makes sense; as you can make $150,00 from a single condo sale vs making $400 per year from a single member.

I guess it makes sense as the members have aged that the business model may change.  Paradise Valley (formally Hidden Valley) in Georgia started as a bunch of young nudist hippies wanting a place in nature to go nude.  They got a few acres of land with a small pond in the middle.  Basically it was just a place for naked people to camp.  Over the years they added things like RV hookups, a hot tub, swimming pool, club house, a few motel rooms and even a "restaurant" that reminded me more of the fellowship hall in the church that I grew up in than any restaurant I've ever worked in.

A few years later I noticed a change in the business model.  They had been bought by another resort/corporation.  So first they they start building condos and than they get a liquor license and open a bar next to the pool.  Previously you could bring your own cooler of beer into the pool area like if you are camping.  Now you've got to pay $3-$5 per beer to the resort and you can't bring your own stuff into the common area because of liquor laws.

I understand that business is business but it once started out as a bunch of people who wanted a place to get naked.  Ironically such places seem to be burning their own bridges.  I understand that as your origional members age they want other things (such as shuffleboard or condos) but you also need to cater to the younger demographic too.

I will say that the Paradise Lakes buyout of Hidden Valley wasn't without it's upside.  The first few times I went there I felt very excluded by the people in charge.  I was once confronted by some blow-dried douche-bag because I dared to walk through the RV lots where full timers live because another member had told me that it was the only shower with working hot water.  Once PL bought out HV I was treated like a rock star when I showed up.  The first time it was just because I was young; the next few times was because I brought girls with me.

[jlaidler]

  :345To our European, UK, Australian, and Asian friends, is this the same over there?  Worse?  Or so far not so, well, I really don't know how to describe it.  I really really don't.