International Young Naturists Organisation
General Talk (primarily non-naturist) => Pitti's Book Club => Topic started by: dangle on June 26, 2012, 10:31:42 pm
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Just got done reading the first book as a recommendation of a female friend. Very interesting and borders on taboo.
Any thoughts?
My thoughts are that it is af if a female finally made a porn movie from the female psyche. It just happens to be in written form.
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Any thoughts?
Yeah, I'm disturbed at its popularity.
For those unaware of what that book is, there's this neat review: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/340987215 (http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/340987215)
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Any thoughts?
Yeah, I'm disturbed at its popularity.
For those unaware of what that book is, there's this neat review: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/340987215 (http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/340987215)
I can't take that review seriously due to the writer's bizarre need to stick those damn pictures everywhere. Howerver, its nice to see the self declared smart and tasteful people have found something new to hate now the Twilight series has ended.
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I can't take that review seriously due to the writer's bizarre need to stick those damn pictures everywhere.
Then you'll like that one better: http://screencrush.com/50-shades-of-grey-movie/ (http://screencrush.com/50-shades-of-grey-movie/)
Howerver, its nice to see the self declared smart and tasteful people have found something new to hate now the Twilight series has ended.
Hardly something new, it's Twilight fan fiction.
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Hardly something new, it's Twilight fan fiction.
Thank you for making my point for me.
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I'll admit that I had the chance to buy the book not too long ago, but I wasn't sure it was something that would have been worth the money. From reading some of the appraisals that I've seen, I think that as a book, it's lacking unless one is looking for erotica...
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From reading some of the appraisals that I've seen, I think that as a book, it's lacking unless one is looking for erotica...
It's sold and marketed as an erotica book. Someone reading the book is most definitely looking for erotica.
Thank you for making my point for me.
What is your point?
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What is your point?
That the people who were unable to contain their disdain for Twilight have found something new to have a go at.
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That the people who were unable to contain their disdain for Twilight have found something new to have a go at.
I don't think it counts as new being Twilight fanfic. If Stephenie eventually writes her next book and people hate it, they'd still be hating pretty much the same thing.
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There are always going to be genres out there or popular books or films that people really hate not appreciating that it wasn't aimed at them in the first place. If you find yourself hating a really popular book or film that has captured the imagination of a segment of the market, ask yourself if they could make just as many valid criticisms about your own favourite book or film.
Twilight is aimed at teenage girls. Fifty Shades of Grey is aimed at more sexually mature women. You can make just as valid criticisms about Hollywood films, action thrillers or superhero comics for example but they are aimed at a completely different audience. Often the product can be poor quality if it's designed for one particular purpose, for example Fifty Shades of Grey is meant to be erotica. It has obviously worked though otherwise we wouldn't be hearing about it.
So if you find yourself hating any of these books or films, you may argue that you hate what they represent. But if you think about it, doesn't that mean that you are in effect also hating the intended audience? After all, the books and films are designed to appeal to something fundamental about the audience's psychological character and doing it rather successfully.
Maturity is about recognising that everyone has a different background, different needs and values, that people think differently and that you cannot judge purely based on your own particular life.
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I agree. I just didn't feel like it was something that I thought I would enjoy reading, as it is mainly about some acts of which I might be curious, but curious about reality, not fiction. If that makes sense.
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There are always going to be genres out there or popular books or films that people really hate not appreciating that it wasn't aimed at them in the first place. If you find yourself hating a really popular book or film that has captured the imagination of a segment of the market, ask yourself if they could make just as many valid criticisms about your own favourite book or film.
I didn't say I hate it, I said I find it disturbing. It's a book that glorifies abusive relationships.
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That's interesting. I was under the impression that it was about a young woman who get's involved with a guy who is into BDSM. But I haven't read the book, so I don't know all about it.
How does it glorify abusive relationships? It isn't that I don't think you're right, but rather I wonder how it does so?
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I was under the impression that it was about a young woman who get's involved with a guy who is into BDSM.
BDSM requires consent.
How does it glorify abusive relationships? It isn't that I don't think you're right, but rather I wonder how it does so?
He makes her do stuff against her will over and over again and she goes with it because she wants to make him happy and wants to change him.
Edit: Read the second review I posted, it's a great explanation of what's disturbing about that novel (and it's funny to read). Here's the link again: http://screencrush.com/50-shades-of-grey-movie/ (http://screencrush.com/50-shades-of-grey-movie/)
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Okay. I understand now. I missed your second review and didn't know about the part where he did things against her will.
If he's doing it against her consent, then it's definitely not something that I would want to read. Like I said, I'm curious about BDSM just as a practice, not because it would be right for me. But like you said, it requires consent. Otherwise it's assault in my opinion.
Thank you for the review.
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Phoned up my mother yesterday. She's a kindle author with several books to her name and she has read it for research. She says it's complete rubbish. Apparently the man is a 27 year old billionaire who has sex all the time and everyone is always going on about how handsome he is.
Sounds like it's just porn for women. I personally don't know why porn isn't ever written well but then I suppose it becomes erotica then. The only difference being that porn is bereft of all other qualities it seems existing to fulfill one purpose only.
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Sounds like it's just porn for women. I personally don't know why porn isn't ever written well but then I suppose it becomes erotica then.
How do you know porn is never written well. I'm not familiar with the genre but I assume there must be some that is well written. Just because that particular author mastery of the language is even below that of Stephenie Meyer doesn't invalidates all erotica.
Is there anyone more knowledgeable that could enlighten us?
From what my female friends told me, Harlequin moved from romance to erotica/porn a while ago. If someone read one, is that any better?
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So if you find yourself hating any of these books or films, you may argue that you hate what they represent. But if you think about it, doesn't that mean that you are in effect also hating the intended audience? After all, the books and films are designed to appeal to something fundamental about the audience's psychological character and doing it rather successfully.
I have no idea how you come to this step and it seems like a defensive knee-jerk, except you haven't read the books apparently so I'm not sure why it would be that so I'm confused :P
But regardless, while there are many people who unfortunately cannot dissociate criticism of things they like from criticism of themselves due to how much they're invested in it (whether it be sports teams, video games, television shows, or whatever), there's no connection between simply criticising something and disliking the people who do like it. I mean, I dislike stuff people I love like and I obviously don't hate them, and I'll even openly mock how terrible stuff I like is. Now, granted, if the criticism of this book is "people who like it must be stupid," then yes I can see where that'd be problematic, but simply "this thing is terrible for reasons x-z" is criticism and if you don't allow criticism of fiction then something's wrong.
I haven't read 50 Shades but most of the criticism I've seen has either been shock of "something this bad shot to popularity out of nowhere so quickly" or the more important "this book has a damaging message".
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Just an update, I read Fifty Shades of Grey, and got to the third chapter before I stopped reading it. Does it get any better?
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Any thoughts?
Yeah, I'm disturbed at its popularity.
For those unaware of what that book is, there's this neat review: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/340987215 (http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/340987215)
Best ending to a review.... Ever.
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I have to admit that I don't understand how it could be so popular now that I've read the beginning of it. I very rarely read part of a book and then stop reading it, but this is one of the books that I felt I didn't think would be good enough to finish.
Would someone explain why so many people think it's good?
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I don't think it counts as new being Twilight fanfic. If Stephenie eventually writes her next book and people hate it, they'd still be hating pretty much the same thing.
No, it really is Twilight fanfic. It started as a fanfic featuring Bella and Edward doing BDSM. It was posted to a fanfic website and after several complaints over it's sexual nature the writer pulled it down and rewrote it as an original piece.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty_Shades_of_Grey#Background (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty_Shades_of_Grey#Background)
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Anything that makes MILFs that little bit kinkier is ok with me :Butt Shake:
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I just listened to the first ten chapters of the book. My opinions about it may offend many people. :4245
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I just listened to the first ten chapters of the book. My opinions about it may offend many people. :4245
It probably won't offend me, go for it.
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First of all when i was listening to it i was well aware that it was fake. More than a fiction should. In my opinion, Anne obviously was infatuated with Christian from the start but she insisted on not wanting to be involved. Then she keeps on trying to seem nice and trying not to make him mad. I would think that if you don't want to see anyone anymore you wouldn't care if you made them mad or not. Especially if they stalk you and always know where they are. I don't think anyone would want that. Then she finally breaks down with him and goes to Seattle. The reason why i think she did? She was "Hot and Bothered". She wasn't thinking about who Christian could actually be or what he might do to her. He could have been a psychopath who kills people in his basement. He already seems to have short violent outbursts when things don't go his way which indicate to me that he would be an abusive man. I thing that only reason she went along with it was because he was handsome. If he were unattractive he would have been slapped with restraining orders and labeled as a pervert.
Then two things when they were in Seattle scared me. First, was his line about how he doesn't "make love" but rather "F**k's". I would think that any girl hearing that would want to leave the house immediately. But she doesn't. Then he shows her the pain room but she still doesn't freak out. If i were a woman i would have ran out of there screaming. At this point, i completely believe that it was a miracle that she passed her final exams in college.
That was about all i listened to except for the sex scenes because the first one i went through made me nauseous and angry by the fact that he didn't use a condom and made me almost cry because she gave away her virginity to a guy she barely knows who only wants to use her body for relief. Then i know that she must sign the contract eventually which just makes me sad for her. I had to take a break from it for a little bit to collect myself because in my mind it was both emotional and physical rape.
After i reached chapter ten i stopped and probably won't start reading it again. The book just seemed unreal to me and too depressing.
And she needs to stop listening to her inner goddess because it has a reckless attitude that might get her killed. (Hope it doesn't.)
That's how i feel about it even though many others may not agree.
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I have read that the book will be filmed and Emma Watson is supposed to play the lead role.
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For those buying the audio book.
Gilbert Gottfried Reads Fifty Shades of Grey (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K1RcKJVbHA#ws)
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I want to read it because my sister has been telling me to read it. And the cover art is breathtaking (my dream job is to be an illustrator for books. Children's books in particular) and I can see a lot of work was put into it.
The sexual part of the book doesn't interest me at all, though. Just want to read the book to see why everybody is going crazy over it.
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i dont think i will be reading it but a lot of women have and will be :rolleyes:
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i dont think i will be reading it but a lot of women have and will be :rolleyes:
My sister has the book on her iPad when it came out. But she still hasn't had time to read it. I don't know if she will, though...
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Sounds like it's just porn for women. I personally don't know why porn isn't ever written well but then I suppose it becomes erotica then. The only difference being that porn is bereft of all other qualities it seems existing to fulfill one purpose only.
Glorified porn, it is. And a sex statement: women porn is "legal" and sells better.
I read somewhere that it is intended to replace bible in hotels. I don't mind the bible withdrawal (though I'm a believer), but replacing it with a linguistic retard? I notice that the only reason why they choose the book as a bible replacement is because the book's best-seller status, not the quality of its content. Even if you think it as a 'light reading' in hotels, as an adult (by no means "adult entertainment") bedtime stories, it's still doesn't make my sense. There are tons of light reading novels with better quality; those which you can read to sleep without dreaming of being tortured to climax.
Mind you, oftentimes the best-selling books are not the award winning books. Only nerdy teens or women who crave things like "Life of Pi" or "The Curious Incident of the Dog at the Night-Time".
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I have read it I took it for what it is and I really enjoyed it.
It is easy to read and stimulates something in women that most men are unable to provide them, romanticism, eroticism and taking them on a journey outside of their day to day life.
It is not well written and will never be a great novel, but then I very much doubt anyone expects it to be.
I really enjoyed it and have started the second and read it when I am not in the mood for something more challenging.
When I read it on the train I sometimes get a strange, even flirtatious look from other travelers, I simply smile and reply "market research".
My point of view is there is nothing at all wrong with giving a woman pleasure, more men should read it and gain a bit of insight and emotional intelligence (not looking directly at the sexual elements). This book appeals to the various layers of a woman and how she would like to be turned on, lusted after, respected, excited, cared for and so on... a multidimensional lover, stimulating all manners of our selves.
In a very transparent and simplistic way it also examines the fallible nature of human beings, which despite the fanciful construct of the circumstances of the novel it provides the reader with a slight illusion of possibility - I could be Anna/Christian.
Fundamentally it is not just about women, these are desires that any emotionally alive person would want from a relationship.
I'm a 30 year old male, I have read 50 shades and I'm not ashamed!! :63424
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If you're picking up advice on how to treat women from that book then I feel bad for women you meet... unless you're using Christian as an example of what not to do. He's an abuser and a stalker and whatever pleasure the fictional protagonist gathers from his actions that doesn't translate to reality.
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If you're picking up advice on how to treat women from that book then I feel bad for women you meet... unless you're using Christian as an example of what not to do. He's an abuser and a stalker and whatever pleasure the fictional protagonist gathers from his actions that doesn't translate to reality.
The advice extends to those thinking Ana is an acceptable role model.
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It is easy to read and stimulates something in women that most men are unable to provide them, romanticism, eroticism and taking them on a journey outside of their day to day life.
Or, as in "Twilight moms" case, making some (married) women, who have GREAT sex in their relationship life, find their men fare poorly in comparison with some franchised "ideal" romance and sex. It is a comfort zone you should not leave, and an abusive fictional character is the least reason to do so.
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I have refused to read the crap and don't recommend it to anyone. I'VE written better erotica than that and as a writer, I'm seriously disappointed in the publishing company who let that leave its office.
The local writers group I'm in got together and had a rant about it then listened to an excerpt read online by a guy imitating the cookie monster. Hilarious.
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I'm seriously disappointed in the publishing company who let that leave its office.
I bet their shareholders aren't.